Climbing Ethics in China?

[meisterowens]

Is there a standard for ethics when it comes to rock climbing in China? There's not much trad around, which means there's not much of a potential for conflicts arising from retro-bolting, etc. Still, I noticed that chinese crags tend to be littered with garbage and occasionally shit. And I've heard reports of quickdraws being stolen in Yangshuo, from routes that were being projected.

Any one have an opinion?

[homeboyyy]

I don't think there's any standard. There seems to be kindof anything goes mentality at the moment. I dont necessarily think thats a bad thing though since the sport is still trying to establish itself in China. In the end, it should be up to the people that bolted to decide what the local ethics should be like.

When I was in HK a few months ago, we noticed that there were some nice crack lines that were poorly bolted. It probably would have been better if those particular routes hadnt been bolted at all since it would be possible to climb them using trad pro.

[sam-zg-gx]

My 2 cents:
Their *are* climbing ethics in China. Some interesting examples from my local area, Nanning...

***"no closed projects": basically, once its bolted its on. that said, I'm sure if you told any of the locals that you want to keep working the route you just bolted, they'd stay off it... its more that the local guys bolt something & then all have a crack at it, one after another... its actually pretty cool, FA isn't so important... they don't really list FA's, more often they list who opened route (i.e. bolters, belayers, the crew)...

***"bolting cracks, no problem": at first I was shocked by this too, but my opinion has since changed. Consider the following factors - 1)Trad climbing isn't as popular as in the West. 2)Certain routes recieve higher traffic. & 3) far worse things exist.
1) Mainly because trad climbing is more expensive, cumbersome & dangerous, sport climbing wins out. Trad gear cost alot. If you take a groundfall, no mountain rescue exists to wrap you in a blankie, pop you on morphine & wisk you away in a helicopter whilst Whitney Houston plays in the background.
On the positive side: I've seen Chinese climbing clubs at festivals with 20+ members, sharing the few ropes, harnesses & helmets that they have between them... actually doing what's important about climbing - climbing, enjoying the friendship & adventure... not really worried about idiosyncratic ethical debates, i'd imagine...
(all that said, as climbing develops here in China, I would hope to see that more crags being developed that use the natural opportunities for trad protection over bolts...) Oh, & trad on limestone is not a plug a play game... a lot of limestone in the south...
2) I've seen some forum talk about particular crack routes in Hong Kong being bolted... the main reason for bolting these routes (from what I could tell) was that they were recieving *alot* of traffic. It would appear that the local climbing community decided that the safety of the climbing experience was more important than the "purity" of the "ethics". Like or not, this is what the local community has decided. I can vouch for similar reasons at local crags in my area (Nanning)
3) At one of Nanning's local crags, a beautiful limestone crack extends up a vertical face. 25 metres long, perfectly straight, on good rock - a true gem. Protected by 8 bolts, 1 metre to its left.... gasp! Ahem, not more than 150metres away, on the back face of this karst, @ noon & 5pm everyday a massive explosion rocks the sugar cane fields that surround the cliffs. A limestone quarry has been slowly eating away at the karst for the last few years & by my guess, the crag may not exist in a few more (even now its not really a good idea to climb there: flying rocks!). So any arguments about "irrevoccibly marking the rock with bolts" or "murdering the asthetics for future generations" its kinda trumped by the masses of *dynamite* that the locals are using round the corner (I certainly hope they're not *chipping* holds! :P )
Reminder: you *could* ignore the bolts, naturally protect & demonstrate for the locals what the *sharp end* really means ;)

***"Don't bother the farmers" - One of the local Nanning crags is basically a no-go because of previous disagreements. Local climbers respect that, they don't climb there anymore.

there are some more stories I could tell - but I'll save them for another time

.sam